Any 17's w elite catch can install...help? - Page 2 - Chevy Colorado & GMC Canyon
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post #21 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 11:31 PM
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On their site they specify a kit for a 2016+ Colorado/Canyon. Perhaps that means if you have a 2016 or 2017 they will gladly sell one, but you are on your own for installation.

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post #22 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 09:43 AM
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Here is a video I made of removing the engine cover/intake tube. I also point out the valve cover breathers and the pcv line.

Hope it helps somebody.

https://youtu.be/KXNf17izm6o


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post #23 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 05:22 PM
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Hmm, interesting that fondupot says the hose in his hand at the end of the video is PROBABLY the PCV hose without being able to see the other end. I have my doubts.

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post #24 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted by njacobsen View Post
Hmm, interesting that fondupot says the hose in his hand at the end of the video is PROBABLY the PCV hose without being able to see the other end. I have my doubts.
Agreed, that hose came off the cover right? If so its not the pcv. Interesting, I wonder if GM did something strange with the PCV? like made it internal somewhere? Seems no one can find it. Kind of makes me wonder if it has something to do with valve coking......hmmm.....

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post #25 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 10:52 AM
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Agreed, that hose came off the cover right? If so its not the pcv. Interesting, I wonder if GM did something strange with the PCV? like made it internal somewhere? Seems no one can find it. Kind of makes me wonder if it has something to do with valve coking......hmmm.....
Internal. . . that's what I mentioned in an earlier post. Also, GM uses an internal PCV in the 2.4L engines which has been a problem in some colder climates where it can ice up.

I agree, not sure that one hose from the back is PCV in the usual sense, Otherwise, the oil/water vapors from the crankcase will be deposited onto the throttle body. If that is the case, expect the TB to need cleaning a lot more often.

I'll be looking at this soon and see if it makes any sense.

Hoping Elite or some catch can maker can shed some light on how to install on the new LGX/LGZ engines.

EDIT: One thing that is puzzling is that usually a PCV has a "Clean" air intake going from the air cleaner chamber into one valve cover and then a "Dirty" side on the other valve cover with a tube going to vacuum on the intake manifold . . AFTER the Throttle Body. The "T" in this engine connecting both valve cover venting together is puzzling. And that extra tube connected to the engine cover coming from where - - ?
I remember seeing a Catch Can install on a Camaro forum that required drilling an extra hole and installing a fitting onto the intake manifold.
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post #26 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by GraniteBlue05 View Post
Internal. . . that's what I mentioned in an earlier post. Also, GM uses an internal PCV in the 2.4L engines which has been a problem in some colder climates where it can ice up.

I agree, not sure that one hose from the back is PCV in the usual sense, Otherwise, the oil/water vapors from the crankcase will be deposited onto the throttle body. If that is the case, expect the TB to need cleaning a lot more often.

I'll be looking at this soon and see if it makes any sense.

Hoping Elite or some catch can maker can shed some light on how to install on the new LGX/LGZ engines.

EDIT: One thing that is puzzling is that usually a PCV has a "Clean" air intake going from the air cleaner chamber into one valve cover and then a "Dirty" side on the other valve cover with a tube going to vacuum on the intake manifold . . AFTER the Throttle Body. The "T" in this engine connecting both valve cover venting together is puzzling. And that extra tube connected to the engine cover coming from where - - ?
I remember seeing a Catch Can install on a Camaro forum that required drilling an extra hole and installing a fitting onto the intake manifold.
interesting, seems adding an extra hose the the mnifold would be just asking for a lean code/CEL........

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post #27 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 10:40 PM
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Internal. . . that's what I mentioned in an earlier post. Also, GM uses an internal PCV in the 2.4L engines which has been a problem in some colder climates where it can ice up.

I agree, not sure that one hose from the back is PCV in the usual sense, Otherwise, the oil/water vapors from the crankcase will be deposited onto the throttle body. If that is the case, expect the TB to need cleaning a lot more often.

I'll be looking at this soon and see if it makes any sense.

Hoping Elite or some catch can maker can shed some light on how to install on the new LGX/LGZ engines.

EDIT: One thing that is puzzling is that usually a PCV has a "Clean" air intake going from the air cleaner chamber into one valve cover and then a "Dirty" side on the other valve cover with a tube going to vacuum on the intake manifold . . AFTER the Throttle Body. The "T" in this engine connecting both valve cover venting together is puzzling. And that extra tube connected to the engine cover coming from where - - ?
I remember seeing a Catch Can install on a Camaro forum that required drilling an extra hole and installing a fitting onto the intake manifold.
The LT1 V8 in the Corvette has a clean side fitting in each valve cover. The dirty side is in the valley cover below the intake manifold with a short hose from the PCV valve in that valley cover to the vacuum fitting in the intake manifold behind the throttle body. The LT1 in the Camaro is similar with an additional clean side separator mounted to the front of the passenger side head with a drain into the crankcase. That clean side separator is mistaken for a catch can quite regularly, but it is not. The Corvette LT1 has clean side separators inside the valve covers. The LT1 V8 is not an overhead cam; the single cam is below the valley cover.

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post #28 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 07:52 AM
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You guys are right. Idk why I thought that one hose coming to the intake tube was the pcv line. Upon further thought It's definitely not.

*EDIT*

So on my lunch break I decided to poke around a little bit more, and found how where that breather hose on the intake tube/engine cover goes to.

It connects to the intake manifold. near the back. See first attached picture. I outlined it in red. Second pic is of it closer up. Its the hose on the left.

I looked around more for anything resembling a PCV line....No luck.
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post #29 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 04:52 PM
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I just got an email from Tracy Lewis, he works closely with Elite Engineering on catch can stuff. What he said is that on the new LGZ (Truck V6) and LGX (Camaro V6) there is no longer a direct vent from the crankcase to the intake manifold. That is good news. This is where the majority of the blowby oil would enter into the intake manifold in previous motors.

The clean side venting comes from the thin tubing that connects on the front of the intake tube/engine cover, and then splits into a Y and goes to the valve covers.

The dirty side venting comes from that larger tube on the left side (passenger side) of the intake tube and runs back to the valley cover. (That's shown above).

He mentioned that the engines can still benefit from having something installed on the clean side, but he forgot to attach the directions he was referring to.

So I am awaiting his reply. And I'll post back with more info then.

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post #30 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 04:58 PM
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The dirty side venting comes from that larger tube on the left side (passenger side) of the intake tube and runs back to the valley cover. (That's shown above).
Anxiously waiting for the rest of the story. If indeed that tube is a dirty side vent from the valley cover, then all of the crankcase fumes will be ingested into the intake air ahead of the throttle plate. That will likely make for frequent throttle plate cleaning on these engines.

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post #31 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 04:59 PM
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So, it sounds like the oil vapor gets circulated back into the crankcase via the valley cover?
Since clean air enters the valve covers via the the "Y" and tubing, the question is how is it vented if there is no vacuum drawing the filtered fresh air in? It sounds like the valley somehow provides some vacuum? Trying to wrap my head around how that may work.

If it is like the V8 explained earlier, then the valley somehow has a vacuum connection behind the base of the Throttle Body? If that is the case, then the intake manifold and back of the intake valves are still "seeing" oil and water crankcase vapors.

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post #32 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 05:05 PM
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Anxiously waiting for the rest of the story. If indeed that tube is a dirty side vent from the valley cover, then all of the crankcase fumes will be ingested into the intake air ahead of the throttle plate. That will likely make for frequent throttle plate cleaning on these engines.
He just replied, but I'm still confused. This is what he saiys.
Quote:
The hose is actually coming from underneath the intake manifold from the engine valley in the rear as a direct route to the main intake bridge assy. Although the IM is way different (truck IM creates more torque at lower RPM's and the car version more HP at high RPM's).


On the truck I think the portion of the engine cover routes the cleanside through and then splits out.....but not sure. I have a complete IM and all here from a 2016......and they still use intake manifold vacuum from the engine cover from the IM.
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So, it sounds like the oil vapor gets circulated back into the crankcase via the valley cover?
Since clean air enters the valve covers via the the "Y" and tubing, the question is how is it vented if there is no vacuum drawing the filtered fresh air in? It sounds like the valley somehow provides some vacuum? Trying to wrap my head around how that may work.
You got me, I'm still stumped. Hopefully I can get more info tomorrow from Tracy Lewis.

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post #33 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 07:42 PM Thread Starter
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It's been a week since my last email to elite, sent another just now. Will update asap

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post #34 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 09:24 PM
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You guys are right. Idk why I thought that one hose coming to the intake tube was the pcv line. Upon further thought It's definitely not.

*EDIT*

So on my lunch break I decided to poke around a little bit more, and found how where that breather hose on the intake tube/engine cover goes to.

It connects to the intake manifold. near the back. See first attached picture. I outlined it in red. Second pic is of it closer up. Its the hose on the left.

I looked around more for anything resembling a PCV line....No luck.
Do we really see where it connects? It appears the hose from the air bridge goes under the metal tubing, one larger than the other. I cannot see definitively where that hose connects, unless you got a clearer look at it to the end than the picture is showing.

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post #35 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 09:35 PM
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I just got an email from Tracy Lewis, he works closely with Elite Engineering on catch can stuff. What he said is that on the new LGZ (Truck V6) and LGX (Camaro V6) there is no longer a direct vent from the crankcase to the intake manifold. That is good news. This is where the majority of the blowby oil would enter into the intake manifold in previous motors.

The clean side venting comes from the thin tubing that connects on the front of the intake tube/engine cover, and then splits into a Y and goes to the valve covers.

The dirty side venting comes from that larger tube on the left side (passenger side) of the intake tube and runs back to the valley cover. (That's shown above).

He mentioned that the engines can still benefit from having something installed on the clean side, but he forgot to attach the directions he was referring to.

So I am awaiting his reply. And I'll post back with more info then.
Of course he will make that statement in hopes of selling a clean-side separator. It is clear from the couple of responses from him that they (elite/Tracy) have not figured out how the PCV system works on the LGX/LGZ. Just as this thread began, they will gladly sell the cans and separators to owners of the 2017's, but have not determined how to install the products, or if they will even work as currently constructed. Or, is there a way to build a catch can for the LGX/LGZ?

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post #36 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 09:40 PM
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Do we really see where it connects? It appears the hose from the air bridge goes under the metal tubing, one larger than the other. I cannot see definitively where that hose connects, unless you got a clearer look at it to the end than the picture is showing.

Here you can see the hose all lit up. It goes back behind the intake manifold. This is about the best picture I can get. Not sure where it goes to be honest. The hose goes between a bracket or something and I can't find the end of it, even when I stick my hand back there. Its gets pretty tight.





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post #37 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 09:42 PM
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Of course he will make that statement in hopes of selling a clean-side separator. It is clear from the couple of responses from him that they (elite/Tracy) have not figured out how the PCV system works on the LGX/LGZ. Just as this thread began, they will gladly sell the cans and separators to owners of the 2017's, but have not determined how to install the products, or if they will even work as currently constructed. Or, is there a way to build a catch can for the LGX/LGZ?

They don't need to sell me anything. I already have an elite can and a clean side separator. I've put them on all my DI cars. They do what they are designed to do.

I 'm just trying to determine how to goes on this Engine. If possible. Don't be so defensive.


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post #38 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 10:12 PM
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They don't need to sell me anything. I already have an elite can and a clean side separator. I've put them on all my DI cars. They do what they are designed to do.

I 'm just trying to determine how to goes on this Engine. If possible. Don't be so defensive.


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I think I am being honest about the comments made by Tracy as posted in a couple of posts in this thread. My statement may not be what you want to hear, but I do not think it is defensive.

Believe me, I am just a curious about how the PCV system works on this engine as you are. I have a 2017 Cadillac XT5 with the LGX engine and have attempted to follow that hose the same as you have. I came up short of finding the end on the XT5 engine as well. I can see on my engine the clean side plumbing to each valve cover from the air bridge ahead of the throttle body, but cannot determine where the PCV air is drawn out of the engine.

I am sorry you purchased the products from Elite and now are running into this much difficulty getting them to provide support for the application sold. Have you looked for solutions from other catch can vendors; or has no one been able to figure out how GM designed the PCV for this engine?

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post #39 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 10:20 PM
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I think I am being honest about the comments made by Tracy in a couple of posts in this thread.

Believe me, I am just a curious about how the PCV system works on this engine as you are. I have a 2017 Cadillac XT5 with the LGX engine and have attempted to follow that hose the same as you have. I came up short of finding the end on the XT5 engine as well. I can see on my engine the clean side plumbing to each valve cover from the air bridge ahead of the throttle body, but cannot determine where the PCV air is drawn out of the engine.

I am sorry you purchased the products from Elite and now are running into this much difficulty getting them to provide support for the application sold. Have you looked for solutions from other catch can vendors; or has no one been able to figure out how GM designed the PCV for this engine?
From what I can tell the LGX and LGZ pcv system is integrated with the hose in question. To what extent...I am not sure. To be certain though, I read a post on GMauthority that the PCV system uses a new two stage PCV system.
Quote:
Two-stage PCV system: this revolutionary system maintains low oil consumption, featuring a pre-separator between the block and the engine’s rear cover and a high-efficiency separator in the center of the block’s “V”.
That statement seems consistent with what I've found so far on the engine. It's very possible these motors don't need a catch can, and if that's the case, great. One less thing to worry about.

Here is the source for that quote. Click to the Features tab once on the page, the bit about the PCV system is near the bottom of the article, 3rd to last bullet point, GM 3.6 Liter V6 LGX Engine Info, Specs, Wiki | GM Authority

I'm not mad at Elite at all. To be honest, I didn't pay for the can I have from them, they sent it to me for free to making a video on my GMC Sierra 5.3L (you can see those on YouTube). I think the folks at Elite are very knowledgeable and helpful. You might have just caught them on an off beat.
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post #40 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 10:25 PM
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I checked on the UPR website. That is another reputable catch can vendor. They do not list any for Colorado/Canyon applications. For Camaro V6 they list through 2014, but nothing for 2016 or 2017 when the LGX became the installed engine.

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