Any 17's w elite catch can install...help? - Page 3 - Chevy Colorado & GMC Canyon
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post #41 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 11:13 PM
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The coking issue was my main concern about buying a Colorado, so I hope this is true. I had read that GM had a patented process for resolving the issue and it sounds like this is the process. Hopefully, someone can confirm this. Has anyone tried asking GM Customer Service?
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post #42 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 02:52 PM
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Alright guys, here is the latest from Tracy Lewis...

For the installation of a Cleanside Separator (2017 LGZ V6)
1. Bridge the valve covers together by cutting and capping the T-fitting that goes to the Intake Tube/Engine cover.
2. Install CSS into the Oil fill cap. Run a hose from CSS to the existing barb on the front of the Intake Tube/Engine cover.
3. Done.

For a dual port Catch Can (2017 LGZ V6):
1. Connect the tube that comes from the back of the engine (Foul Tube) to the inlet on the catch can. (This existing tube comes straight up from the valley cover aka the crankcase. It is normally routed to the passenger side of the intake Tube/Engine Cover.)
2. One outlet on the catch can goes to the existing port on the passenger side of the Intake Tube/Engine Cover, right next to the air box. Install a check valve flowing away from catch can on this line.
3. The 2nd outlet on the catch can needs to be routed into the Intake Manifold. This requires a new barb be installed on the Intake Manifold. Drilling and tapping a hole, and installing a barb with a flow restrictor valve so you don't run into any lean conditions. You will also need a check valve flowing away from catch can on this line.

Attached is a crude drawing of how it all should work...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Drawing.jpg (241.9 KB, 28 views)
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Last edited by fondupot; 04-19-2017 at 09:26 AM.
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post #43 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 03:04 PM
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Further more, the issue with the LGZ (and LGX for that matter) from the factory isn't necessarily valve coking with it's OEM setup. While, it still could cause a little bit, the bigger issue is more that the crankcase vapors that contain contaminates (from combustion, unburned fuel, water, etc) do not have enough suction to evacuate the crankcase. Because with the OEM setup, there isn't enough suction present in the Intake Tube/Engine cover to flush the crankcase vapors. Instead the vapors and combustion contaminates stay in the crankcase with the oil, causing excessive wear. The oil filter on the vehicle cannot remove these contaminates because they are too small. Unless of course you are using a premium oil filter like a WIX or Amsoil.

So what the catch can and clean side separator setup aims to achieve, is provide ample suction to the crankcase vapors (by adding the Intake Manifold line) to suspend those contaminates in blowby and flush them out of the crankcase. Then they get trapped in the catch can and you remove them from your engine. Giving you cleaner engine oil and thus a longer lasting motor.

Hopefully that makes sense to everyone....
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Last edited by fondupot; 04-18-2017 at 03:14 PM.
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post #44 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 04:07 PM
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Well, in my opinion, Tracy has devised a way to attach the products he sells and a sure fire way to void your engine warranty by completely modifying and defeating the GM Engineered PCV system.

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post #45 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njacobsen View Post
Well, in my opinion, Tracy has devised a way to attach the products he sells and a sure fire way to void your engine warranty by completely modifying and defeating the GM Engineered PCV system.
I'll admit, I am not keen on drilling/tapping my intake manifold....

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post #46 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 04:50 PM
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This one has the appearance of a solution looking for a problem.
Moving from valve coking to excessive oil contamination, too low crankcase vacuum on a newly designed engine, and invasive adaptation procedures.
I'll sit and watch this one.
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post #47 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by fondupot View Post
Further more, the issue with the LGZ (and LGX for that matter) from the factory isn't necessarily valve coking with it's OEM setup. While, it still could cause a little bit, the bigger issue is more that the crankcase vapors that contain contaminates (from combustion, unburned fuel, water, etc) do not have enough suction to evacuate the crankcase. Because with the OEM setup, there isn't enough suction present in the Intake Tube/Engine cover to flush the crankcase vapors. Instead the vapors and combustion contaminates stay in the crankcase with the oil, causing excessive wear. The oil filter on the vehicle cannot remove these contaminates because they are too small. Unless of course you are using a premium oil filter like a WIX or Amsoil.

So what the catch can and clean side separator setup aims to achieve, is provide ample suction to the crankcase vapors (by adding the Intake Manifold line) to suspend those contaminates in blowby and flush them out of the crankcase. Then they get trapped in the catch can and you remove them from your engine. Giving you cleaner engine oil and thus a longer lasting motor.

Hopefully that makes sense to everyone....

First, thanks for all the time and effort to ferret out this info. It is as I suspected. .. an additional fitting required in the intake manifold.

Also, the way the LGZ handles crankcase vapors could explain why my 2017 Colorado 3.6L is down to 82% Oil Life already with only about 700 miles on it. Our 2015 Equinox with the 3.6L LFX V6 would need about 1,200 to 1,500 miles to get near 80% oil life.

Thanks again. . while some just "watch" you have gone the extra mile. Yes, some just watch and pounce on anything.

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post #48 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by GraniteBlue05 View Post
First, thanks for all the time and effort to ferret out this info. It is as I suspected. .. an additional fitting required in the intake manifold.

Also, the way the LGZ handles crankcase vapors could explain why my 2017 Colorado 3.6L is down to 82% Oil Life already with only about 700 miles on it. Our 2015 Equinox with the 3.6L LFX V6 would need about 1,200 to 1,500 miles to get near 80% oil life.

Thanks again. . while some just "watch" you have gone the extra mile. Yes, some just watch and pounce on anything.
I have about 80% oil life remaining, but I have about 1650 miles on my truck.

And thanks, I figured I could do some good on the forums and help people make informed decisions.

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post #49 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by fondupot View Post
I have about 80% oil life remaining, but I have about 1650 miles on my truck.

And thanks, I figured I could do some good on the forums and help people make informed decisions.

Hmmm. . . that's what I would expect (80% @ 1,500 miles), but maybe the short trips I mostly have done. I have been taking the long way every time I use the truck but there have been maybe 85% 10 to 12 mile trips with additional stop/starts. The rest of the mileage was one 175 mile round trip and another 45 mile round trip. And this was mostly during colder weather until the past 3 weeks or so.

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post #50 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by fondupot View Post
Alright guys, here is the latest from Tracy Lewis...

For the installation of a Cleanside Separator (2017 LGZ V6)
1. Bridge the valve covers together by cutting and capping the T-fitting that goes to the Intake Tube/Engine cover.
2. Install CSS into the Oil fill cap. Run a hose from CSS to the existing barb on the front of the Intake Tube/Engine cover.
3. Done.

For a dual port Catch Can (2017 LGZ V6):
1. Connect the tube that comes from the back of the engine (Foul Tube) to the inlet on the catch can. (This existing tube comes straight up from the valley cover aka the crankcase. It is normally routed to the passenger side of the intake Tube/Engine Cover.)
2. One outlet on the catch can goes to the existing port on the passenger side of the Intake Tube/Engine Cover, right next to the air box. Install a check valve flowing away from catch can on this line.
3. The 2nd outlet on the catch can needs to be routed into the Intake Manifold. This requires a new barb be installed on the Intake Manifold. Drilling and tapping a hole, and installing a barb. You will also need a check valve flowing away from catch can on this line.

Attached is a crude drawing of how it all should work...
How is drilling a hole in the intake manifold and feeding it air it shouldn't see not going to set a lean code? I don't think I would do that to my new truck... :(

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post #51 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by JScottM View Post
How is drilling a hole in the intake manifold and feeding it air it shouldn't see not going to set a lean code? I don't think I would do that to my new truck... :(
They've done this on the Camaro 3.6L LGX version and it is working.

My guess is since the clean air being drawn in is coming thru the MAF sensor that the ECM thinks it is ok. Either that, or it offsets the air flow from the factory air flow path from the valve covers to the factory valley port. So then, it would balance out and not set any DTC.
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post #52 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 08:22 PM
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Any 17's w elite catch can install...help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JScottM View Post
How is drilling a hole in the intake manifold and feeding it air it shouldn't see not going to set a lean code? I don't think I would do that to my new truck... :(


He did mention some sort of metering device on the barb that goes on the intake manifold. He called it a flow restricter.

But still.....I'm not feeling it.


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post #53 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by fondupot View Post
Further more, the issue with the LGZ (and LGX for that matter) from the factory isn't necessarily valve coking with it's OEM setup. While, it still could cause a little bit, the bigger issue is more that the crankcase vapors that contain contaminates (from combustion, unburned fuel, water, etc) do not have enough suction to evacuate the crankcase. Because with the OEM setup, there isn't enough suction present in the Intake Tube/Engine cover to flush the crankcase vapors. Instead the vapors and combustion contaminates stay in the crankcase with the oil, causing excessive wear. The oil filter on the vehicle cannot remove these contaminates because they are too small. Unless of course you are using a premium oil filter like a WIX or Amsoil.

So what the catch can and clean side separator setup aims to achieve, is provide ample suction to the crankcase vapors (by adding the Intake Manifold line) to suspend those contaminates in blowby and flush them out of the crankcase. Then they get trapped in the catch can and you remove them from your engine. Giving you cleaner engine oil and thus a longer lasting motor.

Hopefully that makes sense to everyone....
Thanks for posting this. I was concerned enough about valve coking to want a solution. This seems to confirm that the LGZ has solved that problem. I can live with a few extra oil changes and a premium filter.
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post #54 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by fondupot View Post
Further more, the issue with the LGZ (and LGX for that matter) from the factory isn't necessarily valve coking with it's OEM setup. While, it still could cause a little bit, the bigger issue is more that the crankcase vapors that contain contaminates (from combustion, unburned fuel, water, etc) do not have enough suction to evacuate the crankcase. Because with the OEM setup, there isn't enough suction present in the Intake Tube/Engine cover to flush the crankcase vapors. Instead the vapors and combustion contaminates stay in the crankcase with the oil, causing excessive wear. The oil filter on the vehicle cannot remove these contaminates because they are too small. Unless of course you are using a premium oil filter like a WIX or Amsoil.

So what the catch can and clean side separator setup aims to achieve, is provide ample suction to the crankcase vapors (by adding the Intake Manifold line) to suspend those contaminates in blowby and flush them out of the crankcase. Then they get trapped in the catch can and you remove them from your engine. Giving you cleaner engine oil and thus a longer lasting motor.

Hopefully that makes sense to everyone....
Well thanks GM, that one way to slow valve coking, eliminate the PCV. ???
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post #55 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 06:04 AM
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I think there is still a functioning PCV system on the LGZ engine. It's just low velocity compared to the previous standard way of doing it. If you look at the size of hoses and tubes in the earlier pictures I think GM engineers looked at how water vapors in the combustion process sometimes caused icing in cold winter climates. The ice could then block air flow in the PCV and build up pressure.

But, yes, now more contaminates possible in the oil. I guess I will get a used oil analysis sometime and see how that looks compared to our LFX Equinox 3.6L. Also, I usually change oil between 3,000 and 5,000 miles depending on the time of year. So I don't think there will be any excessive wear factor. But getting a UOA will tell the story.
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post #56 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 09:34 AM
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I think there is still a functioning PCV system on the LGZ engine. It's just low velocity compared to the previous standard way of doing it. If you look at the size of hoses and tubes in the earlier pictures I think GM engineers looked at how water vapors in the combustion process sometimes caused icing in cold winter climates. The ice could then block air flow in the PCV and build up pressure.

But, yes, now more contaminates possible in the oil. I guess I will get a used oil analysis sometime and see how that looks compared to our LFX Equinox 3.6L. Also, I usually change oil between 3,000 and 5,000 miles depending on the time of year. So I don't think there will be any excessive wear factor. But getting a UOA will tell the story.
This is what I was thinking. Keep the oil changes frequent enough (not overkill), use a good quality oil, and premium filter.

I probably won't keep this vehicle past 50,000-60,000 miles so I really am not concerned.
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post #57 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by njacobsen View Post
Well, in my opinion, Tracy has devised a way to attach the products he sells and a sure fire way to void your engine warranty by completely modifying and defeating the GM Engineered PCV system.
Sounds to me like he is ADDING a PCV system not defeating one. But yes, I don't think anyone looking at that would like it at warranty time. :(

If I had a 2017 I would probably watch the intake tube for oil and install a can on that part if it got oily. (making it easily returnable to stock)
And also change the oil frequently with some good synthetic because of the extra contaminates that are now residing in the oil.
The big question to me is WHY did GM eliminate the PCV? The P in PCV stands for positive, putting a big vent from the crankcase to before the throttle plate is just barely "positive". Could the reason be intake valve coking? Or am I just paranoid about that? lol

p.s. I'm just going off of what I have read/understood in this thread. Also, it sounds like the TB is going to be a mess in a short time on these trucks. Thankfully the TB is relatively easy to clean. A catch can on this "vent" would help that. Right about now I'm glad I didn't get auto A/C or a 2017.... ;)

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post #58 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by nvblue View Post
The coking issue was my main concern about buying a Colorado, so I hope this is true. I had read that GM had a patented process for resolving the issue and it sounds like this is the process. Hopefully, someone can confirm this. Has anyone tried asking GM Customer Service?
I'm pretty sure they are clueless, well they can help you call your dealer...lol

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post #59 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 09:14 PM
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Sounds to me like he is ADDING a PCV system not defeating one. But yes, I don't think anyone looking at that would like it at warranty time. :(

If I had a 2017 I would probably watch the intake tube for oil and install a can on that part if it got oily. (making it easily returnable to stock)
And also change the oil frequently with some good synthetic because of the extra contaminates that are now residing in the oil.
The big question to me is WHY did GM eliminate the PCV? The P in PCV stands for positive, putting a big vent from the crankcase to before the throttle plate is just barely "positive". Could the reason be intake valve coking? Or am I just paranoid about that? lol

p.s. I'm just going off of what I have read/understood in this thread. Also, it sounds like the TB is going to be a mess in a short time on these trucks. Thankfully the TB is relatively easy to clean. A catch can on this "vent" would help that. Right about now I'm glad I didn't get auto A/C or a 2017.... ;)
GM did not eliminate the PCV. Do you really think they would do that?

Check out this very useful post with the best explanation we have available at this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fondupot View Post
From what I can tell the LGX and LGZ pcv system is integrated with the hose in question. To what extent...I am not sure. To be certain though, I read a post on GMauthority that the PCV system uses a new two stage PCV system.
That statement seems consistent with what I've found so far on the engine. It's very possible these motors don't need a catch can, and if that's the case, great. One less thing to worry about.

Here is the source for that quote. Click to the Features tab once on the page, the bit about the PCV system is near the bottom of the article, 3rd to last bullet point, GM 3.6 Liter V6 LGX Engine Info, Specs, Wiki | GM Authority
The fear of crankcase contamination is now the latest "catch can pitch". At least he is admitting the LGX/LGZ does not have a severe coking issue.

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post #60 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 09:41 PM
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GM did not eliminate the PCV. Do you really think they would do that?

Check out this very useful post with the best explanation we have available at this time.



The fear of crankcase contamination is now the latest "catch can pitch". At least he is admitting the LGX/LGZ does not have a severe coking issue.
interesting, 2 "separators" Sounds to me like built in catch cans. Only problem is they drain back into the crankcase.
do they actually go to intake vacuum after the TB? Thats what I meant by not a PCV, just a vent. If its not going to the intake then it's not very "positive" right? But with that being said, I don't know, don't have a 17 in front of me to examine. What do you think?

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AS level/lift 2.5" w/1" rear block, diff drop
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Last edited by JScottM; 04-19-2017 at 09:45 PM.
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