The Chuggle is real! - Page 2 - Chevy Colorado & GMC Canyon
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post #21 of 90 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 05:36 PM
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Interesting about the lower gears and not shifting down. The 6 speed in my Canyon diesel is very smooth, with a slight tendency to hold onto 6th at lower rpm (1,400ish) than I would like, but it shifts readily down from all the other gears. Different engine but same tranny. Ironically, for the diesel, I think GM programmed the same tranny rev it out a little too readily in the lower gears - would actually like it to upshift sooner when accelerating quickly, but not pedal to the metal.
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post #22 of 90 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 06:01 PM
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I purchased a new 2016 Canyon SLT CC LB diesel in early February this year. I'm now at 3K miles. I noticed poor throttle response right away and the chuggle issue between 40-50 mph after the first couple of days. Initially I thought these issues would be resolved within several hundred miles as the ECM learned my driving habits. Didn't happen. Several weeks later I found this site and eventually the pedal commander thread. I purchased one about 4 weeks ago and I'm now driving a different truck. It's adjustable on the fly so you can play with it and dial in your favorite driving style. It exceeded my expectations and is worth every penny I paid. No affiliation with Pedal Commander and no interest in debating whether or not this product works like you will see on the Pedal Commander thread. If you are dealing with chuggle or slow throttle response simply buy one and try it. If its a fit you you won't want to be without it. If not you can send it back for a full refund. End of discussion. Over and out!
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post #23 of 90 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 06:36 PM
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Over at Equinoxforum.net, there was a gentleman that posted about the LFX engine in regards to how the engine was designed for high octane by the engineers but marketing needed to be able to sell the engine as 87+ The PCM's software was written to retard the ignition timing for 87 octane. The engine would relearn the mapping after a couple of tanks of high octane. I have experienced this with my LFX in an Equinox. I started out buying high octane when I first got it but with mostly short driving, I got tired of paying the extra cost. I will be switching back to high octane before we take it on a long trip in June across the plains and into the Rockies as we will be loaded down pretty good. The OP is most likely correct in what he is experiencing with a couple of tanks of high octane.

Here is the link to the discussion: EquinoxForum.net: HFV6 Octane Rating It mentions that this has been also discussed on the Camaro sites in regards to their LFX.

GM is coming out with a 2.0 turbo for the 2018 Equinox & Terrain vehicles that do require high octane.
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post #24 of 90 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 07:03 PM
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Thanks for the octane idea. Will try it starting tomorrow.

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post #25 of 90 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by caseih View Post
Over at Equinoxforum.net, there was a gentleman that posted about the LFX engine in regards to how the engine was designed for high octane by the engineers but marketing needed to be able to sell the engine as 87+ The PCM's software was written to retard the ignition timing for 87 octane. The engine would relearn the mapping after a couple of tanks of high octane. I have experienced this with my LFX in an Equinox. I started out buying high octane when I first got it but with mostly short driving, I got tired of paying the extra cost. I will be switching back to high octane before we take it on a long trip in June across the plains and into the Rockies as we will be loaded down pretty good. The OP is most likely correct in what he is experiencing with a couple of tanks of high octane.

Here is the link to the discussion: EquinoxForum.net: HFV6 Octane Rating It mentions that this has been also discussed on the Camaro sites in regards to their LFX.

GM is coming out with a 2.0 turbo for the 2018 Equinox & Terrain vehicles that do require high octane.
I guess I wont be trying 87 octane. I have noticed that when I fill up after running 91 octane the DIC will show a range of 430-440 miles. I usually run 89 octane and the DIC usually shows a range around 420 miles right after fill up.

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post #26 of 90 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by agsy View Post
Actually 5 different things, I forgot to mention that I did get the PIP update in November. About 600 miles later, chuggle. Then it came the trifecta tune. I had my dad visiting from Europe and had to drive to the airport 2 times, about 300 miles and we also went to the beach a couple of times. The chugge came back in probably 500 miles. After that is when I went with the Diablosport tune, honestly with that tune the chuggle never really went away, that is why I got the BNR.

The funny thing is that during the switch to 93, I did not flash any tune and the hesitation resolved. It was also strange to me that the hesitation was more noticeable during warmer days. That observation is what made me think of the ECM vs TCM and gave the high octane a try. I was also encouraged by Jerry from BNR, who pointed out his article regarding the GM ECM self adjusting factor.
How about #6 - did you drive in Tow/Haul mode for an extended period of time?

I personally refuse to buy higher octane gas. Seems, no matter what you do or try, the transmission adapts to that eventually. It's almost like you gotta do something totally drastic every 2 months just to 'confuse' the programming.
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post #27 of 90 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 07:37 PM
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Thanks for the octane idea. Will try it starting tomorrow.
My understanding is that it takes a tank or two for the PCM to relearn/adjust the mapping. I will know more next month when I get ready a tank or two before our trip to the Rockies on a 13 hour run.

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post #28 of 90 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 08:00 PM
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My understanding is that it takes a tank or two for the PCM to relearn/adjust the mapping. I will know more next month when I get ready a tank or two before our trip to the Rockies on a 13 hour run.
It does take 2 tanks to adapt. The ECM has a high and low octane timing table, and as it runs longer with less knock events consistently on high octane, the timing advances further consistently. With 11.5 : 1 compression, I can't see how they not recommend 91 for optimal performance, but able to to run 87.
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post #29 of 90 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 08:01 PM
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Ha... I just posted about this yesterday. With the "chuggle" I believe the engine is actually misfiring; at least that what mine is reporting in the ECU. And when I ran a couple tanks of 91 through it while on a trip in Florida the problem went away. It was doing it since the first week for me, so it's not gotten gummed up, or something "gone wrong" it's been wrong since day one.

To bad GM doesn't own up to the issue... With all the electronic controls now a days, there has to be something they can tweak.
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post #30 of 90 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 08:11 PM
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To bad GM doesn't own up to the issue... With all the electronic controls now a days, there has to be something they can tweak.
They tweaked it ....by putting out the 8 speed.

Who puts out a new transmission and engine after only 2 years in production?
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post #31 of 90 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 08:25 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jeff B View Post
I purchased a new 2016 Canyon SLT CC LB diesel in early February this year. I'm now at 3K miles. I noticed poor throttle response right away and the chuggle issue between 40-50 mph after the first couple of days. Initially I thought these issues would be resolved within several hundred miles as the ECM learned my driving habits. Didn't happen. Several weeks later I found this site and eventually the pedal commander thread. I purchased one about 4 weeks ago and I'm now driving a different truck. It's adjustable on the fly so you can play with it and dial in your favorite driving style. It exceeded my expectations and is worth every penny I paid. No affiliation with Pedal Commander and no interest in debating whether or not this product works like you will see on the Pedal Commander thread. If you are dealing with chuggle or slow throttle response simply buy one and try it. If its a fit you you won't want to be without it. If not you can send it back for a full refund. End of discussion. Over and out!
I actually own a PC and it does address one of the issues, which is a very insensitive gas pedal; however I got tired of always getting the truck to downshift because of the hesitation. The chuggle was still there but it was easier and more satisfying to press the pedal less in order to get a downshift. Driving high octane with the PC on city mode is a dream come true!

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How about #6 - did you drive in Tow/Haul mode for an extended period of time?

I personally refuse to buy higher octane gas. Seems, no matter what you do or try, the transmission adapts to that eventually. It's almost like you gotta do something totally drastic every 2 months just to 'confuse' the programming.


I did try Tow/Haul mode, not for extensive period because when coming to a stop, the downshift is quite aggressive from 3rd to 2nd. For some reason it jerks my truck. I also noticed less MPG driving like that.

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Originally Posted by RatRacer View Post
It does take 2 tanks to adapt. The ECM has a high and low octane timing table, and as it runs longer with less knock events consistently on high octane, the timing advances further consistently. With 11.5 : 1 compression, I can't see how they not recommend 91 for optimal performance, but able to to run 87.

I 100% agree, I was thinking after some time to try 91 and see if it'll be still chuggle free.. It is a bit cheaper than 93. I think I'll figure out a good average MPG first with 93 with a few tanks used.
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post #32 of 90 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 08:30 PM
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They tweaked it ....by putting out the 8 speed.

Who puts out a new transmission and engine after only 2 years in production?
They did the 2yr plan with the engine on the V6 Camaro, going to the LFX from the LLT (10 & 11), and the Colorado is following suit with it plus trans.
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post #33 of 90 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by caseih View Post
Over at Equinoxforum.net, there was a gentleman that posted about the LFX engine in regards to how the engine was designed for high octane by the engineers but marketing needed to be able to sell the engine as 87+ The PCM's software was written to retard the ignition timing for 87 octane. The engine would relearn the mapping after a couple of tanks of high octane. I have experienced this with my LFX in an Equinox. I started out buying high octane when I first got it but with mostly short driving, I got tired of paying the extra cost. I will be switching back to high octane before we take it on a long trip in June across the plains and into the Rockies as we will be loaded down pretty good. The OP is most likely correct in what he is experiencing with a couple of tanks of high octane.

Here is the link to the discussion: EquinoxForum.net: HFV6 Octane Rating It mentions that this has been also discussed on the Camaro sites in regards to their LFX.

GM is coming out with a 2.0 turbo for the 2018 Equinox & Terrain vehicles that do require high octane.
Not sure I buy that one. Has GM ever had a vehicle that requires 89 octane that was naturally aspirated? BMW yes, MB yes, GM?
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post #34 of 90 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
Ha... I just posted about this yesterday. With the "chuggle" I believe the engine is actually misfiring; at least that what mine is reporting in the ECU. And when I ran a couple tanks of 91 through it while on a trip in Florida the problem went away. It was doing it since the first week for me, so it's not gotten gummed up, or something "gone wrong" it's been wrong since day one.

To bad GM doesn't own up to the issue... With all the electronic controls now a days, there has to be something they can tweak.
Do you mean you see it missing with a scan tool or it actually sets a 'missing' code? What scan tool do you have?

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post #35 of 90 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 02:09 AM
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Why on earth does it do it with the gas and diesel? What about the 4 cyl? ANYONE with the 4 cyl and auto have a chuggle problem?

Is everyone smoking crack? Am I smoking crack and just not know it?
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post #36 of 90 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 02:16 AM
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Anyone try 91 octane in their diesel??? Did it fix the chuggle?
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post #37 of 90 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 06:53 AM Thread Starter
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Not sure I buy that one. Has GM ever had a vehicle that requires 89 octane that was naturally aspirated? BMW yes, MB yes, GM?
Gm could have at least suggested it. I would love to put two of the same v6 trucks side by side, one that has the chuggle and one that does not, and run a log or live scanner to see what is the difference. There has to be something that the ECM does differently or whatever causes the hesitation.

Mine was so bad even my wife noticed it while she was driving the truck. She usually has no observations with her car unless there is something really bad going on. I have to take her car for a drive here and there just to make sure that everything works as it should.

I was very close to trading my truck in for a 17 just because of this one annoyance. If the dealer would have given me a better price I probably would not have started this thread.
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post #38 of 90 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 07:51 AM
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Do you mean you see it missing with a scan tool or it actually sets a 'missing' code? What scan tool do you have?
From the dealership. I had a temporary "Service Stablitrack" message in the DIC, so I took it in. They said there was nothing in the history for the Stablitack, but there was a count of 108 misfire events on #4 Cylinder. Part of my note when I took it in, is that the service message came up immediately after the engine ran rough for a second when sitting at idle. That was my question in the other thread: how does running rough affect the stablitrak? Running rough would be a misfire, but at a count of 108, it was not that 1 second stumble that caused all those; at 600 RPM, 300 fires per minute, 100 would be 20 seconds straight of misfiring.... It was only 1 second or less; enough to give the truck a quick shake. The only other time I've experience anything not normal, is the low RPM, slight pedal pressure "chuggling" that this thread is about. I'm guessing it's really a misfire; otherwise a normal engine would just sort of powerlessly lug through it like every other engine ever built, not start to buck...
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post #39 of 90 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 08:41 AM
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Gm could have at least suggested it. I would love to put two of the same v6 trucks side by side, one that has the chuggle and one that does not, and run a log or live scanner to see what is the difference. There has to be something that the ECM does differently or whatever causes the hesitation.

Mine was so bad even my wife noticed it while she was driving the truck. She usually has no observations with her car unless there is something really bad going on. I have to take her car for a drive here and there just to make sure that everything works as it should.

I was very close to trading my truck in for a 17 just because of this one annoyance. If the dealer would have given me a better price I probably would not have started this thread.
I think there are two different things occuring but people are assuming is the same thing.

You have the throttle-by-wire initial 'delay' when you hit the gas pedal. This is a one time 'delay' before the truck starts moving. All vehicles I've driving with throttle-by-wire have this delay.

Then, there's the chuggle/stutter issue - which occurs (for me anyway) when the truck shifts into 6th somewhere in the range of 40-50mph. You coast and slow down to below 40mph.....step on the gas normally (for me) and the truck just doesn't downshift. Eh eh eh eh eh eh....... kinda feeling.

The whole 'adaptive learning' thing throws a curve-ball trying to diagnose the issues because of the complexity. We all drive differently, have different types of commutes, lengths of commutes, etc. So - diagnosing for one person or one truck won't necessarily mean its doing the same thing on someone else's truck.

People are coming up with their own remedies - which is better than sitting around waiting for GM. So - even if there was someone willing to literally dig really really deep to diagnose it......would all that effort mean anything to GM? Probably not..... Other than the curiosity of knowing WTF - and perhaps there's a hidden gem discovered? But is it worth the $, time, and extra grey hair trying to figure something out that you won't get GM's support for? Just sayin.....

Personally for me - I'm concerned about the mechanicals. If it is a misfire and/or an issue with the torque converter (or whatever else) - its the beginning of potential failure. When and where will this failure occur? How much of a headache will it cause me and my wallet?

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post #40 of 90 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 08:45 AM
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Anyone try 91 octane in their diesel??? Did it fix the chuggle?
I told you to lay off the Jack...... :) Or was it Jose?

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