Lanson's Sound Quality build - 2017 Crew - Page 3 - Chevy Colorado & GMC Canyon
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post #41 of 119 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 03:27 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by liinxcore View Post
really appreciate you taking the time and clearing things up for me- sorry for kind of distracting from your build! What you are saying makes a lot and If I could go back, I would have gone with a different sub. while they sound fine they just don't have the punch or the sound I was expecting I would get. haha keep on truckin sir!
You could benefit from measuring the response you have, which could show you what's missing or overboosted, creating the dissatisfaction. I've said it before, investment in a calibrated mic can really help. The software to measure is free, all you need is a laptop and a mic, and a calibrated USB mic is probably the best way to go.

'17 Crew V6, Build log of sound system / Build log of rest of truck modifications
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post #42 of 119 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 12:50 AM Thread Starter
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The truck is mostly back together as of tonight. I started early in the day with the rest of the interior panels




I then attached the factory front woofer wires with a Euro barrier strip, and ran 16 gauge 4 conductor to that.


And 18 gauge 4 conductor to the rear speaker wires


I then ran all wires (inputs and outputs) through the center console area, after I removed some of it to see the wires make it safely through


I deadened up the front floor pan a little bit on the driver's and passengers



And then I realized, gee...this thing has a lot of wires! I used wire keepers with the sticky bottoms and zip tie top, all over the floor to keep myself organized and abide by most sound competition regulations (JIC)


Here's what you're looking at, from left to right:

left tweeter 2 conductor 18 ga
left mid 2 conductor 18 ga
left and right door woofer 4 conductor 16 ga
left and right rear door 4 conductor 18 ga
front speaker input 4 conductor 18 ga
rear speaker input 4 conductor 18 ga
right tweeter 2 conductor 18 ga
right mid 2 conductor 18 ga
Total of 24 wire terminations + power and ground

I then installed the rear carpet, panels, seats, and pulled all the wires through a central location, driver's side under the rear seat in an existing hole used for the under-seat supporting frame.


My ground is right behind this spot, using a bolt that was poking out, I think its for one of the underseat frame pieces as well. I ground off the paint underneath it, and bolted this 4 gauge down




Next up, I'll begin fabricating the amp and sub setup for under the seat.

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post #43 of 119 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 02:35 AM Thread Starter
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I was bored and restless so I fired up Sketch and made my box (well, virtually.)









I'll have to amend the design on the fly when I build, but so far it looks quite doable.

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post #44 of 119 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 10:33 AM
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This thread outlines such an amazing labor of love and enthusiasm. It seems unlikely one would be willing to pay someone with Lanson's expertise to do all this work on their vehicle - in order to make it worth is time, Lanson would have to charge a ton of money, more than most people could afford to pay. As a result, the highly thought out system he is putting together really will be special and more or less one of a kind. Would love to take a ride in that truck when it is done
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post #45 of 119 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 11:44 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Duken4evr View Post
This thread outlines such an amazing labor of love and enthusiasm. It seems unlikely one would be willing to pay someone with Lanson's expertise to do all this work on their vehicle - in order to make it worth is time, Lanson would have to charge a ton of money, more than most people could afford to pay. As a result, the highly thought out system he is putting together really will be special and more or less one of a kind. Would love to take a ride in that truck when it is done
Thanks, man! You pretty much nailed it, it's a labor of love. If this were my day job I'm sure I'd have good clients and all that but I'm too slow and meticulous to be efficient. But if you look at guys like JT, like Bing at Simplicity In Sound, like Fishman, and many more they do this as their daily and I'm assuming they stay busy with work and get paid well. Their talent is far above mine, too, as is their experience.

I do plan on making something pretty impressive here with this enclosure and rack, and I plan on pushing my skills and equipment to their limit, to make this thing special. Hopefully it works the way I'm seeing it in my head.
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post #46 of 119 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 07:25 PM
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BTW noticed something today, not sure I was expecting or not, but I'll need to keep consideration of it: The stock speakers (through the stock HU) not only control "chime" sounds, they also control turn signal "ticking" sounds. I have my whole system down right now, wires not even connected. I needed my truck to get to the doctor while home sick, so I quickly patched the seatbelts back on and bolted the seats back down, and then tossed all my interior panels that were in the bed somewhere in the garage to get the truck at least driveable. On the way to the doc, I realized zero turn signal sounds or any other sounds for that matter were playing. So, that tells me that I'll need to be careful in amplifying the signal! I may run some tests to see how loud they are when measuring the head unit's output (planning that tomorrow, sick or not.)
Your knowledge is way above my head, and not sure if you needed the knowledge but I thought I would point out also that the chime for the seat belt (which so far as I know we are unable to disable) also is speed and volume sensitive. If i have my stock sound up, the chime is even louder. And it never fails that it chimes in at times when I am using bluetooth talking on the phone, and it is downright obnoxious in its volume.
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post #47 of 119 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 10:32 PM Thread Starter
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Your knowledge is way above my head, and not sure if you needed the knowledge but I thought I would point out also that the chime for the seat belt (which so far as I know we are unable to disable) also is speed and volume sensitive. If i have my stock sound up, the chime is even louder. And it never fails that it chimes in at times when I am using bluetooth talking on the phone, and it is downright obnoxious in its volume.
Thanks for the heads up, I was worried about the front speakers producing all sorts of chimes and clicks and whatever. It is my hope that I can use the rear speakers as well as the front for input, since I can blend with the processor I'm using. But it is a real worry. Amplify those things, and it can get crazy. Weirdly my Durango had similar chimes and other noises, but my MS-8 processor setup in that truck doesn't seem to create loud sounds. I think I'll just tread carefully as I go, see if I can get the head unit to measure something for me.

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post #48 of 119 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
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So I made my prototype today. I might just keep it as long as it performs, we'll have to see. But I learned a great deal about how a box fits in this truck, like what angles and shapes work. I don't usually take many pics when doing woodwork because of the mess, but here's what I did take, and some thoughts along the way:

I started with a 14 1/4 x 46" board, and made my cuts to make an elevated downfire location. I used 1 1/2" as my spacing, but if I were to do this again or if anyone is following along, I'd run 3/4" as the bottom board, 1/2" as the spacer board, and then 3/4" baffle instead of all 3/4" boards. Reason is though a 1 1/2" spacing works great for the downfire, I ran into clearance issues with the ID8's and I was just barely able to overcome it. Had I went with a 1/2" spacer instead of 3/4" I would have that 1/4" that almost shut me down later.



Fast forward some, I made this shape where I had 45 degree corners on the end, to compliment the seat shape above. However, this was a mistake in the end, and I should have started with the box more narrow in the first place. The shape of the seat above requires about a 41 1/2" total length, not the 46 I hoped for. The "lip" inside the top of the seat bottom just doesn't let you get any longer than that.



The angle is good, its 24 degrees if I recall. Good shape overall, definitely used as much as the space under the seats would let me, I think.


In order to fit the subs, I had to cut and space out the area above them.


So as I mentioned, I had to mod the box to get things right. I haven't taken pics of this, it was dark when I quit for the night. But the number is 41 1/2 as I mentioned. I used my saw to cut 2 1/4" off each side, which should work in the end. I might make endcaps but they'd just be for decoration, we'll see.

Progress, though!

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post #49 of 119 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 05:24 PM Thread Starter
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Just rambling as I go here...the perfectionist in me wants to redo this box, and use this prototype as the guidance tool towards a *perfect* enclosure. I learned things about the shape with this one, but the more I pay attention to the shape that has to fit under the seat cushions themselves, I'm left to wonder if this should be redone as a two-piece unit with the amp and processor split on the sides on a single board, and then the subwoofer enclosure itself placed dead-center and taking up maximum space. The amp and processor don't need an air-tight space, so building a separate box on top of the main board would probably work best. By doing it this way, I can't see any negative and it should be easier to build as a two-piece setup. So to detail: I'd have a 14 1/4" deep by 46" wide bottom shape, build an amp mount on one side and a processor mount on the other, and carpet/vinyl/whatever all of this as one single panel, leaving a cutout routered out, and then just make a sub box (downfire, spaced properly) that fits right on top of that panel. I could even use T-nuts to secure the enclosure, and then use the factory's mounting bolts under the enclosure to lock it in. YES, its all coming together in my head!

Welp, box redo coming up! When I'm done someone can use this prototype if they are local. Could be helpful.

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post #50 of 119 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 07:08 PM
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It's a tough spot. I don't like my first box. It's much smaller than planned after some fitments issues. I'm gonna hook it up and see how it sounds but probably end up making it better and bigger. I only have a single 8 and have a toolbox that I'm trying to fit on the opposite side as the sub.

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post #51 of 119 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 07:23 PM
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The subthump wasnt a good option for you? Or did you just want to do it yourself?

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post #52 of 119 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 07:56 PM
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I've been trying to figure out something for the box as well. Subthump box will have to work for now. Sundown just came out with some 6.5's that might work well in this truck.

As far as the chimes go, I would just go with one set of inputs to the processor, when I ran both front and rear to the inputs, it was way too loud.
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post #53 of 119 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 09:58 PM
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As far as the chimes go, I would just go with one set of inputs to the processor, when I ran both front and rear to the inputs, it was way too loud.
I've been wondering what to do about the chimes as well. If you just use the rear channel to the processor, and keep something connected to the stock front signal (to keep the chimes), that kind of messes up the sound stage, doesn't it?

I'm curious to see what the OP does for a box. I want to build my own, mostly because I want some of the space for storage, and want the amp space to be custom to the amp I am using.
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post #54 of 119 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 10:52 PM
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I've been wondering what to do about the chimes as well. If you just use the rear channel to the processor, and keep something connected to the stock front signal (to keep the chimes), that kind of messes up the sound stage, doesn't it?

I'm curious to see what the OP does for a box. I want to build my own, mostly because I want some of the space for storage, and want the amp space to be custom to the amp I am using.
What I did was just go from the front outputs to the processor and left the rears to the rear speakers, that way I could still fade to the rears whenever I have people back there. Chimes are way too loud with both connected but are fine with just one set.

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post #55 of 119 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 11:02 PM Thread Starter
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I've been trying to figure out something for the box as well. Subthump box will have to work for now. Sundown just came out with some 6.5's that might work well in this truck.

As far as the chimes go, I would just go with one set of inputs to the processor, when I ran both front and rear to the inputs, it was way too loud.
OK, well I can split signal using the Helix processor, so whatever input (assuming it is truly full-range, which we'll figure out soon with a test I hope) combination works best, I can use.

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I've been wondering what to do about the chimes as well. If you just use the rear channel to the processor, and keep something connected to the stock front signal (to keep the chimes), that kind of messes up the sound stage, doesn't it?

I'm curious to see what the OP does for a box. I want to build my own, mostly because I want some of the space for storage, and want the amp space to be custom to the amp I am using.
The stage will be up to the processor. It can take rear and front signals and combine them (if it helps), and then recreate a new stage image. Nothing too fancy required, basically I just need a clean full-range input and then the output will be straightforward.


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Originally Posted by Beerdrnkr View Post
What I did was just go from the front outputs to the processor and left the rears to the rear speakers, that way I could still fade to the rears whenever I have people back there. Chimes are way too loud with both connected but are fine with just one set.

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I didn't think the rears made chimes, I think that's why I bothered running rear inputs. I won't be fading with the head unit, only the Helix processor. With that, the inputs will be giving me a sum, and then the output will be up to the processor. I will have to see what inputs (front/rear) produce chime noise.



Thanks all you guys for your continued input, its probably going to matter a LOT when we get to the processing stages!

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post #56 of 119 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 11:14 PM
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I have the minidsp so I'm not sure if it sums the inputs differently or not. It did definitely amplify the signal when both sets out speaker outs were used though. Maybe the Helix will sum it differently.

That's cool that the Helix has fader control, is it used through the remote?

I may have to take your idea on the box too, I was thinking about front firing some sundown 6.5s in a ported enclosure but I'm interested to see what you think about the IDs downfiring. I've had the 12 and 15 versions of them and have always been happy.



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post #57 of 119 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 11:15 PM
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Forgot to mention that I just came back from Vegas, too bad you weren't all done, I would've loved to have taken a listen!

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post #58 of 119 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 11:28 PM Thread Starter
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OK so I have a new gameplan, but I wanted to show you some pics of my existing "prototype" and what I want to change.

I'm not OCD but I can tell you my "attention to detail meter" is freaking out that the subwoofer downfire hole isn't centered in the box. LOL


This was my downfire opening



General profile. Not a bad shape, could be perfected.






So the angle feels right, it looks somewhere between 22 and 23 degrees. I'll keep that. The height (before the lip) is 5 1/2", I'll probably push that to 5 3/4", as that lip doesn't nestle right at the seat. There's about a 1/4" gap even if you push down on the cushion. The lip at the front has a 2" outside length, I'll probably keep that. I'll drop the top vertical from 1 1/8" to 1" even, and that means I'll be 1/8" up taller, requiring a teeny change in final height, assuming I keep the 22-23 degree angle. Should be good. The spacing I'll go for with the downfire will change from 1 1/2" to 1 1/4", using a 1/2" spacer instead of 3/4".

More fun tomorrow, I grabbed some more wood so I can keep working.

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post #59 of 119 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 11:44 PM Thread Starter
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I'm a fan of the ID 15, too. I built this for a friend a while back

It started as a bet that I couldn't build a 15" sub into the trunk, rear-firing. I think I had 1/4" clearance on each side, all done. LOL.

The Helix can do a cool blend thing. You can DL the software and muck around with it, without actually owning the thing. I used a MiniDSP C-DSP 6x8 before, liked it, but I only used RCA input (2ch) on that one.

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Originally Posted by Beerdrnkr View Post
I have the minidsp so I'm not sure if it sums the inputs differently or not. It did definitely amplify the signal when both sets out speaker outs were used though. Maybe the Helix will sum it differently.

That's cool that the Helix has fader control, is it used through the remote?

I may have to take your idea on the box too, I was thinking about front firing some sundown 6.5s in a ported enclosure but I'm interested to see what you think about the IDs downfiring. I've had the 12 and 15 versions of them and have always been happy.



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post #60 of 119 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 12:23 PM
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I am really going to miss having 12's. I've not been impressed with the 8's I've heard in person as far as getting the deep bass that a 12 can, but I see your point about a pair of full depth 8s vs a slim 10, but what about the comparison between 2 full depth 8s and a single slim 12?

I've been looking at the Kenwood eXcelon slims (KFC-XW1200F on 350W RMS, 700W Max... I think I can fit the 12 in based on some good measurements...) mostly because they have a sensitivity of 91db (vs the 85 or so from the IDs or most other 10 slims, etc), but also they don't break the bank. I think I can make a box that nets the manufacturer recommended 0.8 cu ft enclosure that is 27" wide (this volume accounts for the displacement of the sub and is the remaining air space in the box, at least this is according to SolidWorks and some good math.) This should leave just enough space for an amp/processor, and even a small area to have little trays like the OEM plastic piece has (I'll need somewhere to store the jack and tools without having to flip up the seats).

I think I might make a cardboard mockup at full size, and see how everything fits. I'm watching how yours turns out though, since I won't start my audio build for a little while at least.

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