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Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
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 Post subject: Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
 
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Colorado Fan

Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 7:55 pm
Posts: 534
Location: Kodiak, Alaska
I would like start a thread, maybe it will become a sticky. Please keep it civil and we are discussing a solid axle swap or solid axle conversion for the GMT 355.

There is a local junkyard with plenty of 4x4's. I will research what axle would work as far as dimensions, and the differential needs to be on the passenger side. I will still be looking into using the Tcase out of the H3.

Here is some info TXBLACKOUT shared

Quote:
if i had a colorado to SAS i'd be happy to tackle it. unfortunately, my colorado is 3/4 dropped. as for basic SAS information, her is what i can tell you.

here is a little of what i know, for my application and the other rigs ive helped build.

select a donor axle. complete WMS to WMS. depending on what you select, with leaves, i recommend going shackle reversal right off the bat. i didn't. wish i did.

if you go coil, you need to be thinking about a panhard bar, and how you're going to mount it to the frame AND the axle tube. Remember, keep the panhard as parallel as possible to the drag link.

using 70's era ford radius arms, and mid 90s ford radius arm brackets makes for a pretty painless install IF you are smart enough to grab a 70s era ford axle. the high pinion d44 out of 78-79 broncos is a great candidate.

leaf or coil spring the front. either one is about as complex as the other.

you will need longer brake lines, new shocks. As for the shocks, its gonna sound funny, but don't buy them til the truck is sitting on the new suspension. you will have almost no way of guessing how tall the rig will be, and will be unable to accurately select a piston length until completion.

you will likely need to find a compatible PS pump. not sure on colorados, but with my ranger IFS, the rack and pinion setup runs on much higher pressure than saginaw steering and the like, so i had to swap in a 91 ranger PS pump so i didn't frag my 96 f150 power steering box.

when you build your steering links, i used 1.5" OD .250"wall DOM with weld in inserts and 7/8" shank 3/4" eye HEIM joints. my steering is BEEEEEFY. if you do this- you will need to very slightly hone out the hole in the knuckle for the bolt. apart from that, you really just need normal stuff- soap marker, fishing line for plumb bobs, brake parts cleaner, a welder, a torch, a grinder, air tools, and normal stuff a moderate to skilled mech would have in his home garage.

OH! plate steel. if you leaf spring it- you'll need to make all type of custom brackets and whatnot to hand your desired spring hanger off the colorado frame. i went with chrysler factory YJ front spring hangers, and semi outboarded them by 1.5" which required some creative bracket mfg. my shackle hanger up front, truth be told, is more plate bracketry, and a 3" section of YJ front driveshaft, which flawlessly fit my chosen bushings. sorry, can't remember the part #. my front shackles are BlueTorch Fab 6".

geeze man, i know it sounds like a lot- but i got the axle under my truck for around $700. GEARS AND LOCKER COSTS EXTRA... but that is something you have to decide based on your needs, budget, and skill level. if you do your reading on pirate4x4.com, and really plan and research, and ask the right questions, not only will you be able to confidently tackle this- but i'd bet CASH you'll find locals who will want to help and participate.

=) every offroad guy (except prerunners and sand guys) love a solid axle swap! And even those guys probably still like it- even though long travel IFS and TTB and twin i beam suit them better. good luck and feel free to ask me anything you want to know.


If I were to do this, I would also swap in a 4 link setup in the rear with coilovers. Me and my friend have been doing a lot of research about it and have found tricks and easy ways to do it. This is why a SAS is no longer so scary to me. We have a full shop and everything we would need to do this. Anyone with tips or ideas, past experience or anything please chime in!!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:58 am 
 Post subject: Re: Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
 
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 7:55 pm
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Location: Kodiak, Alaska
and Dirty Dawg added this to my other thread.

Quote:
TX blackout wrote:
select a donor axle. complete WMS to WMS. depending on what you select, with leaves, i recommend going shackle reversal right off the bat. i didn't. wish i did.


Been thinking/researching about this quite a bit the last few months. Just read a good article the other day that pointed out a setup where shackle reversal will actually work against you. If your setup is spring over with relatively flat leaves, a shackle reversal will actually cause the axle to move forward under compression rather than rearward as the reversal is designed to accomplish. This is because of the fact that with the flat spring the horizontal distance between the eyes becomes shorter in both compression and droop. With a more arched spring, the horizontal distance between the eyes becomes longer under compression and shorter under droop. Bottom line is, you have to do a lot of planning and make sure you design a whole system to work together.


TX blackout wrote:
using 70's era ford radius arms, and mid 90s ford radius arm brackets makes for a pretty painless install IF you are smart enough to grab a 70s era ford axle. the high pinion d44 out of 78-79 broncos is a great candidate.


If you use a Ford front axle you're going to have to change the xfer case too because the Fords are driver side drop, where our are passenger. What I've found is that a mid to late '70s Chevy truck Dana 44 will work out just about perfect if you shorten it enough to replace the long side axle shaft with the long side from a late 70s Wagoneer. I don't have all my figures in front of me, but as I recall this will end up being just about 65" WMS to WMS. Too wide to suit some, I'm sure, but perfect for what I want. I measured mine with the wheels off and found that the Rear is 63" WMS to WMS and the Front is 62 7/8".


TX blackout wrote:
leaf or coil spring the front. either one is about as complex as the other.


could you go into some more detail to explain that? Seems like the coil/link setup should be way more complicated to ever get set up right.


TX blackout wrote:
you will need longer brake lines, new shocks. As for the shocks, its gonna sound funny, but don't buy them til the truck is sitting on the new suspension. you will have almost no way of guessing how tall the rig will be, and will be unable to accurately select a piston length until completion.


Absolutely!


TX blackout wrote:
you will likely need to find a compatible PS pump. not sure on colorados, but with my ranger IFS, the rack and pinion setup runs on much higher pressure than saginaw steering and the like, so i had to swap in a 91 ranger PS pump so i didn't frag my 96 f150 power steering box.


Would it be possible to install a regulator in the hi pressure line to drop the pressure before it enters the box?


TX blackout wrote:
geeze man, i know it sounds like a lot- but i got the axle under my truck for around $700.


Doesn't really sound like much when it's all said and done. For perspective, go to Car-Part.com and price out a salvaged axle, then price shipping to wherever you are from wherever it is. I'll guarantee you it will end up costing almost that much. Then you can go to currieenterprises.com and pass out when you find out how much a custom one will set you back! $700 is pretty sweet actually.

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3.73 gears and G80 rear locker
Custom intake utilizing stock airbox
Exhaust
E-fan (supermodulation)
6" KC offroad lights
1" Body Lift
2.5" AAL and TB crank
1/2" dif drop (Supermodulation)
Suerskidz front skid plate
custom front steel bumper
Rancho 5325's in the rear and 5300's up front
15 x 8 black steel rock-crawlers with 33 x 12.50 BFG KM2's


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:38 am 
 Post subject: Re: Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
 
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 7:55 pm
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Location: Kodiak, Alaska
TXBLACKOUT also said this
Quote:
what your saying about the shackle reversal applies to reversal done on existing frame/suspension set ups. it in no way applies to a blank slate custom fabbed set up. the occurence yu are referring to would require flat springs AND poor shackle angle. when taking measurements, and looking at where to hang the shackle, you want it to have close to 45* ride height AFTER springs settle. that mean it'll be a bit more vertical when you install it. also- having the axle come forward isn't a big deal. thats exactly what it does in a stock setup anyway- so occasionally achieving maxe down travel, and having the axle shift MAYBE 1" forward will be okay. If you hang them correctly, it shouldn't be an issue, but like i said, even if it does a little, on occasion, thats better than every time by design.

i actually had no idea which side drop the colorados had. so GM went back to pass drop huh. lol commies. well that gives you the option to run as states, up til 87 chevy front, or up til 91 in suburbans, depending on the year, wagoneers had both pass and driver drop, old cjs had pass...

as for coil vs leaf. the coils were actually pretty easy. select an axle if you can that comes from a coil sprung vehicle and you save yourself some time. after that, like i said, you don't need a TJ-esque link set up. the ford radius arm set up is EEEEASY. you just buy c-bushings, fab coil buckets (super simple) place them wherever you want on the frame, , install radius arms on c bushings, and determine where on the fram rail (near the tranny x member) you'll need to install a radius arm mount. i'm attaching a few crappy pics.

i'm not sure about the regulator on the PS line but i'd sure be interested in hearing any info you find out.


i'm kinda excited about having an indirect hand in a colorado SAS. who is gonna be first to do it?

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'07 3.7L crew cab Z71 4x4
3.73 gears and G80 rear locker
Custom intake utilizing stock airbox
Exhaust
E-fan (supermodulation)
6" KC offroad lights
1" Body Lift
2.5" AAL and TB crank
1/2" dif drop (Supermodulation)
Suerskidz front skid plate
custom front steel bumper
Rancho 5325's in the rear and 5300's up front
15 x 8 black steel rock-crawlers with 33 x 12.50 BFG KM2's


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:43 pm 
 Post subject: Re: Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
 
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lol, i poste4d pics in the other forum too. i'll try to catch up later and shaqre more pics/info

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:46 pm 
 Post subject: Re: Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
 
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im in 4 updates

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:56 pm 
 Post subject: Re: Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
 
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here are a few pics


Attachments:
File comment: pic quality isn't great, but this a chrysler factory j**p YJ front spring hanger. can't remember cost, but it wasn't too bad. i SEMI outboarded the springs, and then literally mocked up cardboard, and designed each plate gusset piece to tie it securely into my existing frame. notice how i tied it into the existing gussets for the driver front body mount.
rear_hanger.sized.jpg
rear_hanger.sized.jpg [ 55.31 KiB | Viewed 2347 times ]
File comment: may i recommend deciding 100% where the SAS will happen, so you don't end up with a change of venue the night before- and driving your truck on literally 2 wheel and a floor jack.
2wheel.jpg
2wheel.jpg [ 68.88 KiB | Viewed 2347 times ]
File comment: here is my front hanger. pretty crude- but again, this was about function and overkill strength. it cleaned up well after some attention from a slag hammer and some scotch brite.
front_hanger1.sized.jpg
front_hanger1.sized.jpg [ 64.19 KiB | Viewed 2346 times ]
File comment: my truck, TB cranked and body lifted, semi comp cute in the rear on 35s.
no_ifs1.sized.jpg
no_ifs1.sized.jpg [ 66.42 KiB | Viewed 2344 times ]

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:07 pm 
 Post subject: Re: Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
 
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on that last pic- its supposed to say SEMI COMP CUT... not cute lol.

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FOR SALE: 04 ZQ8 COILS, and z71 lower valance/airdam combo open to offers.. PM me

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:09 pm 
 Post subject: Re: Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
 
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if you leaf spring it- plan accordingly as to how you run your drag link. THIS IS NOT A RECOMMENDED SET UP- but it does work. i ran the DREADED "z link" for close to a year before i gave up on the flat top knuckle hi steer project due to funds, and made my own 1 of a kinda crossover steering. here is what you CAN, but i recommend you not do.


mine was .250 wall hydraulically bent, directly tapped in the ends for the heims.


Attachments:
nix_grinding.jpg
nix_grinding.jpg [ 65.61 KiB | Viewed 2343 times ]

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FOR SALE: 04 ZQ8 COILS, and z71 lower valance/airdam combo open to offers.. PM me

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:12 pm 
 Post subject: Re: Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
 
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after several set ups i hated, i went with factory F250 superduty shock towers. get the 2WD ones. they are IDENTICAL to the 4WD ones, but with only 2 bolt holes instead of 4. get your measurements, and then tac weld it- then use the would-be bolt holes to plug weld, then run your beads.


Attachments:
shock tower.jpg
shock tower.jpg [ 72.04 KiB | Viewed 2342 times ]

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:15 pm 
 Post subject: Re: Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
 
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also- ignore that brakeline dangling in the background. LOL. its been PROPERLY dealt with. =) also the lower mounts for my shocks are factory ranger mounts off the rear axle. i just cut em down.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:17 pm 
 Post subject: Re: Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
 
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just for grins, here is the rear PARTIAL BACKHALF set up i ran for several years. about 2 months ago i completely removed the frame aft of the cab. but this gives you an idea of what i am working with.


Attachments:
partial back.jpg
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:19 pm 
 Post subject: Re: Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
 
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alright. time to go to work. hopefully this thread will really take off by the time i get home.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:22 pm 
 Post subject: Re: Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
 
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If you got the means and the will go for it. It would be totally badass to see a Colly with a solid axle front. Pioneering something like this is worth serious awesome points. Keep us posted!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:44 pm 
 Post subject: Re: Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
 
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There have already been a few pics posted of a Colly or Canyon with the SAS, but I don't think any members have done it yet.

On the shackle reversal, here's the link to the article: http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/susp/cjyjsoa/

Here's the text to which I was referring before (written by John Nutter -- famous in the Jeep world -- 12/2000):

Flat arch front springs such as YJ springs make an expensive shackle reversal unnecessary and even counter productive. With flat arch front springs that are anchored at the rear the tire will move towards the rear on either compression or extension. The reason is the flat arch places the tire
at it's farthest forward point when the suspension is at rest, and when the spring arches either positively or negatively the arch will cause the tire to be moved slightly rearwards. The goal of a shackle reversal is to improve ride by making the tire move towards the rear on compression, however a shackle reversal has the opposite effect when used with flat arched springs. Shackle reversals do work properly with springs with a greater arch such as 4" lift springs for a spring under application.

With the flat arch springs on a SOA you can also angle your front shackles further forwards than most people normally would. The reason you can do this is similar to the reason a shackle reversal becomes unnecessary, the shackle end spring eye will move towards the rear on either compression or extension. This has 2 benefits. First it gives the shackles more room to move rearwards and frees up more droop. Secondly having the shackles raked forwards makes it less likely that you will pop one over center to the rear and bend a spring.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:10 pm 
 Post subject: Re: Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
 
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if by flat arch, he is referring to negative arch, like what the old chevys used to run, i guess i could see that... but i definitely wouldn't agree with him that a shackle reversal is counterproductive. i'd also be surprised to see someone go to all the trouble just to use a "flat arch" spring. the idea that a positive arch spring cant flex is just urban myth. deaver and like companies can produced just about any pack you want, with any lift/spring rate.

personally i went with YJ 4" springs and the laid down a lot. now they flex very well, but i do still intend to shackle reverse eventually. i know a handful of guys who shackle reversed and LOVED the result. however none of them were running flat springs. so again- if this guy says so, then i guess it is so. either way, just don't run flat springs and we'll be fine. =)

keep the info coming. the more points of view we have in here, the better our end result will be.

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FOR SALE: 04 ZQ8 COILS, and z71 lower valance/airdam combo open to offers.. PM me

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:19 am 
 Post subject: Re: Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
 
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I went to the junk yard today and found a lot of axles. I found a few 80's suburbans and chevy pick-ups with a front axle, pass side dif and 6 x 5.5 hubs. I know the axle I would need is there, there are a lot.

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'07 3.7L crew cab Z71 4x4
3.73 gears and G80 rear locker
Custom intake utilizing stock airbox
Exhaust
E-fan (supermodulation)
6" KC offroad lights
1" Body Lift
2.5" AAL and TB crank
1/2" dif drop (Supermodulation)
Suerskidz front skid plate
custom front steel bumper
Rancho 5325's in the rear and 5300's up front
15 x 8 black steel rock-crawlers with 33 x 12.50 BFG KM2's


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:42 am 
 Post subject: Re: Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
 
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if you can, may i recommend 8 lug?? a dana60 is worth the little extra you'll pay.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:00 am 
 Post subject: Re: Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
 
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Colorado Z71 Owner
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Hey TX, what do you think of the Alcans with the Orbit Eye bushings?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:22 pm 
 Post subject: Re: Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
 
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Wouldn't a solid axle off the early yota's work?They are still a 6 lug axle with lots of aftermarket support.The only thing is you would lose your ABS in the front.Still trying to find a way to make that work with a SAS swap.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:37 pm 
 Post subject: Re: Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
 
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thats the setup i was thinkin X

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:56 pm 
 Post subject: Re: Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
 
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I checked with Trail-gear on the Toy axles a while back. They are going to be too narrow for a Colly. I can get you the specs if you like.

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Last edited by dirtydawg on Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:08 am 
 Post subject: Re: Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
 
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Racer X wrote:
Wouldn't a solid axle off the early yota's work?They are still a 6 lug axle with lots of aftermarket support.The only thing is you would lose your ABS in the front.Still trying to find a way to make that work with a SAS swap.

There was another thread on here that talked about a change in the ABS sensor design and location for '09 that made the steering knuckles on the available lift kits incompatible with the '09 trucks. It said the sensor was no longer a ring but attached to the side of the knuckle. I've been trying to get some more information on that to see if that sensor arrangement might be adaptable to the knuckle on a D44 or some other solid front. If I get ahold of any info, I'll be sure to pass it along.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:34 am 
 Post subject: Re: Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
 
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why not just tune out the abs or live without it?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:21 pm 
 Post subject: Re: Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
 
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Colorado Z71 Owner
Colorado Z71 Owner

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:14 am
Posts: 1315
Location: Tulare, California (Central Valley)
If that's possible, that might be the easiest. I wasn't sure it could be done and really don't want to deal with an ABS fault warning forever.

Here's a little more specific info on the Toyota axles. This is from John Voth at Trail-Gear. Their Rock Assault housings for the IFS length are "51 inches to the flanges and 57 inches to the wheel mounting surfaces." The older, non-IFS design is 2" shorter. I think I said this above, but maybe it was in another thread, our rear WMS dimension is 63" and the front (on mine -- Z71) measured 62 7/8" That may vary on Z85s, I don't know. Anyway, we're shooting at 63" for a stock length replacement.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:05 pm 
 Post subject: Re: Colorado/Canyon Solid Axle Swap
 
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Colorado Fan
2005 GMC Canyon Z71

Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:04 pm
Posts: 2284
Location: Calgary Alberta
If it's possible just tune out the ABS...you only need it if you don't know how to threshold brake anyways...

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:04 pm 
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