Smaller Tires and Less Lift (and other weird things) - Chevy Colorado & GMC Canyon
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post #1 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-26-2015, 01:01 AM Thread Starter
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Smaller Tires and Less Lift (and other weird things)

I wanted to offer an alternative to the threads going with large lifts and the largest tires as you can. This Truck has continually shifted my thoughts on what to do to it, and still has me going back to the drawing board on a few configs. These are some of the brain drippings when modding the vehicle over the last 2 weeks. It rambles, so sorry for the length of this.

Disclaimer: Obviously, do what you want with your rig, these are just items I found with my setup. Still, I would love to hear others opinions on their config.

First a brief garage history of me. Avoiding the sports cars, my last few off-road vehicles:
(Current beast) 2013 Jeep Wrangler JKU: 3” lift 37” tires
2004 Nissan Titan: 2.5” lift………..34.2” Tires
2007 Jeep Wrangler JKU: 3” lift………35” tires
1984 Jeep Wrangler YJ: 2.75” lift……34” Tires
2010 Toyota Tundra: 2.75” lift………33.5” Tires

I am not opposed of re-gearing, larger tires, lifts, UCA, etc. This is why it’s going to get weird on this thread. I need this truck to be fully capable, not showy. Good on highway, great on jeep trails, dirt roads, and corn fields.

I had walked into this truck project with the intent to put a 4” lift and 34” tires on my 2015 Canyon. Since Fox couldn’t get the 2.5 line out in time, I decided to put the 1.25” body lift I had intended on the truck and opt for a 1.75” Leveler lift, giving me 3” lift overall. I slapped some Mickey Thompsons Baja ATZ 285/70R17s on (measured 33” tall and 11.5” wide per the manufacturers’ website specs). So I am already lower than my original plan.

Then this truck changed my mind on a few things:
Body Lift: I don’t like them on almost any vehicle. I deliberated right up to where I jacked up the tires. This truck needs it. It responds well from it, and gives you back the fender room you need. I opted for the smallest body lift I could go, and have no cutting. Hands down the best decision yet. Handling is not hindered in any way and you can step up slightly in tire size. The kits are way better than they used to be, and I do not feel that it impeded the quality of the ride in any way.

Leveler Lift: I know its no comparison to 2.5 coilovers, but I am relatively impressed with the response. I went with a 1.75” and am glad I didn’t go any bigger due to how the truck sits. Plus anything I can do to minimize any loss of upward travel or over-extension on downward. I also had some concerns on the CV angles, but less so now that I have been under it. Its still there, but ¼ inch of washer has me less concerned. More pictures to follow on the Diff drop thread.

Rake: At 1.75” leveler lift , the rake is non-existent, and I am contemplating going down .25 to .5 inches more in the front or even lift the rear .5” to 1” when add-a-leafs come out for the twins so I can get some rake back.

Gas Mileage per Gallon: With the removal of the front lip and adding a lift and tires, I have noted a very limited impact on my MPG. Unless you re-calibrate to your new size, the calculation difference in tire circumference will carry over to mpg as well. Even with some degree of error, I have seen less than a Mile Per gallon impact.

Spacers: I had a cousin who had a friend whose brothers dads car exploded in the driveway when he tried to install them on his car. Ok, outside of that and all joking aside, I never really liked spacers nor adapters if you can fully avoid them, and I would never use them if they are not hub centric. BUT, Canyons hubs extend 12 mm out and if there is a 5mm spacer on them, I am still getting the most out of the actual hub without having to go to a full on hub centric spacer. Diatribes on how evil spacers are, or how quickly I will die in a ball of fire, please set up a new thread.

DynaBeads: Or most other well designed Balancing beads. Love them, love them, love them. No one ever used to install them for me in the past and I almost stopped using them, but they have become very common if you show up to the tire shop with them and I will take them over lifetime balancing any day.

Tires: (here’s the big one) : Coming from the 285/70R17 MT Baja ATZ (33” Tall, 11.5 wide) I knew that these tires run big. But knowing I was at 3” I had thought I had room to spare. Being so big, the interior rubs on front sway, the back interior does not rub, but on any flex, it will a lot. Fender room is good on the highway, but it would never be able to fit in the well on 3” upward movement. What I noticed immediately, is that I lost the mid-size truck feel and it felt like a full size truck in tire weight, and reaction on the road. Steering wheel felt sluggish, and performance was more lethargic, and was reluctant to flex the truck offroad. I love the actual tires, 37” Baja ATZ will be going on the Jeep soon, but on this truck, I didn’t like the ride home from the tire shop.

I went down in size (lightning strike for effect).

I moved to the 275/70R17 BF Goodrich KO2 (32.2” tall 11” wide) nearly .8” smaller and .5” narrower and 4lbs lighter than my earlier set. I regained the nimbleness of the mid-size truck, and got a bit more travel on the upward movement on the flex. I even got an extra centimeter back so I could push the tires out a few millimeters more flush against the fender and to keep it off of the sway bar (which was still rubbing).


Net/net, what I found was the levers did have enough of an effect on the rake that it did impact the “factory feel” that every leveler lift company says isn’t changed by their product. It does a bit, not horribly, but noticeably. Tire size for my setup, and many like it, cannot handle 11.5” width tires without spacers pushing it out of Factory backspacing. Any lift saying it can fit 285s without rubbing, I can’t see how it can get past the sway bar on full turn unless the actual tire size is even thinner than 11 actual inches wide. At least on my vehicle. I don’t know how others are doing it even by going larger on the leveler lifts, but do yourself a favor, do a full turn on your vehicle, and then get under it and measure hopefully your truck will be like everyone else’s and you can somehow make it work.
Eventually I may go to the Fox 2.5s, but I am in no rush and don’t expect to go above 2”, eventually I may go to 285s but not on factory rims and not without fender flares and cutting, but for now I am happier having moved to smaller tires and lifts.
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Last edited by drewabbs; 05-26-2015 at 01:06 AM.
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post #2 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-26-2015, 02:10 AM
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Great post, thank you. I have my truck waiting on me when I can get back home and have been trying to figure out my setup..either the 1.5" body lift and 2.5"/1" level lift but I don't think bigger than 285/70/17 is going to work well no matter what with sway bars how they are positions. Leaning toward your setup.
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post #3 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-26-2015, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AFWoodyz24 View Post
.either the 1.5" body lift and 2.5"/1" level lift but I don't think bigger than 285/70/17 is going to work well no matter what with sway bars how they are positions. Leaning toward your setup.
I did the SuspensionMaxx 1.75" leveler due to the diff drop kit being included. I looked at others, but they want you to cut the bolts on your top plate. Too much commitment there.

And went with the Rough Country 1.25" body. All the body lifts seem to be solid kits but liked this one because there was zero cutting, just new drill holes. Really I would mainly focus on the lift you need more than quality differences between Zone, RC, and a few others.
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post #4 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-26-2015, 10:13 AM
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I am impressed with the work you have done, and the commitment(s) you made to these mods. Not my cup of tea, but guys like you help push the envelope for development of some great upgrades to vehicles.
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post #5 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-27-2015, 04:20 PM
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So with the 275/R70-17 tires you still needed a spacer to prevent rubbing on the sway bar? But after that you had no rubbing on the sway bar or the fenderwell?
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post #6 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-27-2015, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Justin Black View Post
So with the 275/R70-17 tires you still needed a spacer to prevent rubbing on the sway bar? But after that you had no rubbing on the sway bar or the fenderwell?
Yes, on full turn, it still hits on an 11". I am working on a Sway bar drop and the spacers to see if I can re-mediate it, but its still a WIP. Very minor, but want to see if i can get rid of it completely.
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post #7 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-27-2015, 11:45 PM Thread Starter
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Thought the Pics would help

Leveler Lift and Factory 30s (265)

Leveler Lift and Body Lift on Factory 30s (265)

Leveler Lift, Body Lift, 33s (285)

Leveler Lift Body Lift 32.2 (275)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Leveler Lift only sm.jpg (316.9 KB, 986 views)
File Type: jpg Body and Level (factory Tires) sm.jpg (320.2 KB, 942 views)
File Type: jpg Leveler Body and 33s sm.jpg (350.4 KB, 1006 views)
File Type: jpg Leveler Body and 32.2 sm.jpg (387.8 KB, 1062 views)
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post #8 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-30-2015, 09:33 PM
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This was very informative. I have some rubbing on the rear frame of mine still. I dropped and moved front sway bar out 1 inch and dropped it 2 inches. What I have found is that dropping it helped with the angle of the bar, if you moved it out too far you actually will rub the inside of tire on the trailing end of sway bar. This was done with a rough Country kit for a 73-87 Chevy full size. The holes are elongated to provide adjustment. I used Rough country part 1019 kit utilizing the angle toward the front with the larger end on the bottom and the plastic cover fits back on with no mods and will rest on sway mount and flex a little. I did not cut plastic so I am able to return it to stock if needed.
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post #9 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-31-2015, 10:09 AM
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I was curious to see what you all thought about 255/70-18's fitting without rubbing the sway bar. It looks like they are about 10" wide compared to 10.8 on the tire size calculator.

I know comparing 18's to 17's is like apples to oranges, but the overall tire dimensions are still in play. Do you think losing an inch of tire width would cut down on your rubbing of the swaybar?
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post #10 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-31-2015, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lacucaracha View Post
I was curious to see what you all thought about 255/70-18's fitting without rubbing the sway bar.
A lot of variables:

It depends on your lift amount.

255 is the stock width but I think the additional height may require slight trimming on the front or rear, and the sway bar may still get hit. My 33" did find for height, it was the width, but others have had to do slight trimming on the front plastic fender piece.

Another variable is the tire manufacturer and type. Hit the manufacturer site and look at the exact width for the tire you want. They vary so much that one 255/70R18 would work and another wont.

Best thing to do is crank that wheel and get underneath the vehicle. Add 1.5" to one side of the tire (because its 3" bigger all around) and see what you could hit.

On my setup, i need about 1/4" - 1/2" extra to clear the sway. Losing width (in order to get 1/2" on one side I would have to go and inch thinner) the spacer is the easier choice for me.

Anyone else try the pizza cutters who can lend experience vs. theory?
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post #11 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-31-2015, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewabbs View Post
A lot of variables:

It depends on your lift amount.

255 is the stock width but I think the additional height may require slight trimming on the front or rear, and the sway bar may still get hit. My 33" did find for height, it was the width, but others have had to do slight trimming on the front plastic fender piece.

Another variable is the tire manufacturer and type. Hit the manufacturer site and look at the exact width for the tire you want. They vary so much that one 255/70R18 would work and another wont.

Best thing to do is crank that wheel and get underneath the vehicle. Add 1.5" to one side of the tire (because its 3" bigger all around) and see what you could hit.

On my setup, i need about 1/4" - 1/2" extra to clear the sway. Losing width (in order to get 1/2" on one side I would have to go and inch thinner) the spacer is the easier choice for me.

Anyone else try the pizza cutters who can lend experience vs. theory?
I would be installing goodyear wrangler duratracs, 255/70-18's.

https://www.goodyear.com/en-US/tires...ac/sizes-specs

According to the goodyear website, overall width is 10.2", while diameter is 32.1". Who knows how accurate that is, but Goodyear is usually pretty on-point with that kind of stuff. Also, the 10.2" width is more than a tire size calculation would be, so I'm more keen to believe it.

We have multiple work trucks that use these and they always last forever. I can only imagine the higher load rating will help them last on such a small truck.
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post #12 of 52 (permalink) Old 06-24-2015, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewabbs View Post
Thought the Pics would help

Leveler Lift and Factory 30s (265)

Leveler Lift and Body Lift on Factory 30s (265)

Leveler Lift, Body Lift, 33s (285)

Leveler Lift Body Lift 32.2 (275)
So what have you stuck with, 275?

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post #13 of 52 (permalink) Old 06-24-2015, 11:40 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by enigy View Post
So what have you stuck with, 275?
I stayed with the 275s. And opted for 6mm spacers (still leaving 6mm of the center bore.) but they were delayed a few weeks.

My eventual end state:

I may move back up to full 33s again, but want to get all the kinks out first. Try to determine if I want some mild fender flares (when they finally come out with decent aftermarket).

I am going to move into the adjustable shocks (icon or fox) in the front, but again, oddly, I am in no rush since the levelers do the trick nicely.

I just picked up an Add-a-leaf for the rear, asking him to tailor it so its only a 1" lift, so whether I stick with the 1.75" lift or move up to a 2.25" in the front, it should sit level.

I am looking into bags or sway bar for the rear, and even looking at possible quick release stuff. But again, no rush.

Right now I am enjoying how nimble this is after my lifted Titan. Its great on the way up the hill and is already solid offroad. But we will see how happy I am after a few roking trips this year.

Here it is before the rear add a leaf.
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File Type: jpg 20150621_162358.jpg (195.3 KB, 432 views)
File Type: jpg 20150621_121125.jpg (204.8 KB, 441 views)
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Last edited by drewabbs; 06-24-2015 at 11:48 PM.
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Forgot to mention, another added bonus:
By switching back to the 32.2 I am going with 235/85r16 for my spare. It puts me within about 1/2 of an inch to the full tire. But it allows me to get .78 in thinner on the tire. I never liked how low that sat for an exit angle. It aint much, but I will take it.
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post #15 of 52 (permalink) Old 06-25-2015, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by drewabbs View Post
I stayed with the 275s. And opted for 6mm spacers (still leaving 6mm of the center bore.) but they were delayed a few weeks.

My eventual end state:

I may move back up to full 33s again, but want to get all the kinks out first. Try to determine if I want some mild fender flares (when they finally come out with decent aftermarket).

I am going to move into the adjustable shocks (icon or fox) in the front, but again, oddly, I am in no rush since the levelers do the trick nicely.

I just picked up an Add-a-leaf for the rear, asking him to tailor it so its only a 1" lift, so whether I stick with the 1.75" lift or move up to a 2.25" in the front, it should sit level.

I am looking into bags or sway bar for the rear, and even looking at possible quick release stuff. But again, no rush.

Right now I am enjoying how nimble this is after my lifted Titan. Its great on the way up the hill and is already solid offroad. But we will see how happy I am after a few roking trips this year.

Here it is before the rear add a leaf.
Very cool, truck looks great! What brand spacers?

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Originally Posted by enigy View Post
Very cool, truck looks great! What brand spacers?
I went Suspensionmaxx just due to the diff drop spacers that came with the kit. I don't think I will be using the diff drop until I switch out to the adjustable, they just don't seem to be needed at 1.75 but at 2+, I can see a need for it.
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post #17 of 52 (permalink) Old 06-25-2015, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by drewabbs View Post
I went Suspensionmaxx just due to the diff drop spacers that came with the kit. I don't think I will be using the diff drop until I switch out to the adjustable, they just don't seem to be needed at 1.75 but at 2+, I can see a need for it.
Oh, so their leveling kit came with the 6mm spacers?

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No sorry, I mistook your question.
I thought you were talking about the leveling kit.

www.motorsport-tech.com

Give the guy a call directly when ordering. He knows his stuff.
They made my spacers to order, and it sounds like hes been getting hit with a ton of requests for the twins.

My 6mm spacers I spoke of earlier, are for the wheels.
Your trucks center bore is 12mm long, in order to keep it hub centric you would need to stay a little below that, and use the existing lugs bolts if possible.
OR
if you go more than that (since your adapters would have no lip at 12mm) you would need to decide if you wanted to cut the lugs for shallow mounts or go so thick with your spacer that you can use the existing.

I wanted to try and get away with the minimum amount of spacer, this puts the tire right at the fender about mid way up so I am not slinging rock. And at full flex I will never hit fender.

Last edited by drewabbs; 06-25-2015 at 09:04 AM.
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post #19 of 52 (permalink) Old 06-25-2015, 09:19 AM
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Ah, ok thanks. Yea I'm trying to figure out what would be the best spacer size to keep those KO2s, 275/70/17s for me, under the fender but avoid full crank rubbing. Sounds like 2in/6mm+.

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Originally Posted by enigy View Post
Yea I'm trying to figure out what would be the best spacer size to keep those KO2s, 275/70/17s
I will know if the 6mm fixes it in about 2-3 weeks. If that doesnt work, I have been looking into someone who can fabricate the sway bar relocate piece. between those two, I think the issue will go away.
(Its odd, no one wants to sell a small piece of billet with 2 threads on it for $60.)

Billet Aluminum Sway Bar Relocation Blocks, Demello Offroad

will keep you posted.
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